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    Topic:   Edit Interface design  

    This topic contains 13 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by kiwi kiwi 2 years, 1 month ago.

    Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
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    • #4560
      kiwi
      kiwi
      Keymaster

      1595 posts

      A general question for everyone….

      Q. How important to you is the current ‘pop up window’ user-interface for general editing in kiwitrees?

      I ask because I find myself increasingly frustrated by the problem that very few edit processes fit totally within their designated popup window without scrolling. I ‘think’ I would prefer to do my editing on a new tab (not new window), where there would be ample room to fit everything in one place.

      The biggest downside would probably be the loss of the current ability to move the pop-up window around on your desktop, and bring it on top of other tabs. But equally you can move tabs to a new window, and even resize them at will.

      The current design dates back to the start of PhpGedView, a time when tabbed browsers were still quite new. Now all browsers use them and the use of pop-up edit forms is declining.

      popup

      Nigel
      My personal kiwitrees site is www.our-families.info
      Attachments:
      #4562
      macalter
      macalter
      Participant

      551 posts

      My preference is the pop-up window, even with ability of opening a link in new window or detaching a tab.

      The size of a pop-up is different than a window and that’s important factor. Resizing a window isn’t the same and would be a distraction to editing. And as you mention, moving it around which I do A LOT.

      Scrolling vertical isn’t that much a problem if data is consistently and logically placed when initially entering and subsequently editing. And, for each of the events. Currently, they’re not but that’s a carry over from long ago too.

      -----
      Kiwitrees:
      "A-D connections 3.3.1"
      PHP 7.0 Fast CGI

      "The Royals 3.3.1"
      PHP 7.0 Fast CGI
      mySQL server: 5.1.56
      MacOS: 10.11.6  (El Capitan)
      Browsers (mac): Safari  Version 11.0;  Firefox 56.0
      [updated: 07 Oct 2017]

      #4565

      jacoline
      Participant

      479 posts

      I do not have a problem with this kind of popus. But if moving the “edit” to a new tab – do you think about automatic moving focus to this new tab and when saving back at the right page?

      Have seen a problem with another homepage (not kt or wt) where the edit works with another tab. Have to manual move focus and when saving it just focus on the last tab (which could be a google search or something else)

      Regards,
      Jamie Jaconelli

      admin and owner of:
      www.jaconelli.dk/webtrees, www.jaconelli.dk/history, www.familien-johnsen.dk(submenu) and danish support at www.host-siden.dk/sandbox and facebook

      #4566
      Roy
      Roy
      Participant

      122 posts

      Nigel:

      Replacing the editing pop-up’s with tabs does have some benefits. However, I often find myself having to refer to the main screen as I edit. (Getting old and my memory isn’t what it used to be). To accomplish this in the proposal two additional steps would be necessary; pull the edit tab off into a new window and then resize it. Probably would still have to scroll the new resized window.

      Less common, I occasionally have 2 editing pop-ups open at the same time. That would double the additional steps.

      For me, scrolling a pop-up is preferable to the nuisance of having to manage the tab/new window. I could, however, live with the change. It wouldn’t be a deal breaker for me; just an aggravation.

      Roy

      Roy

      Apache 2.4.27  PHP 7.19 MariaDB 10.2.8

      #4572
      kiwi
      kiwi
      Keymaster

      1595 posts

      Thanks for all the feedback on this idea. I did say at the start that I only ‘think’ I would prefer to do my editing on a new tab 🙂

      I needed to get your input to help broaden my ideas. It isn’t something I want to get into the upcoming release, and perhaps not even the next, but just to explore ideas. So I’ll comment on some of your points, but with that in mind please don’t read my answers as disagreeing with you on any point, just considering alternative positions.

      mac said:

      Scrolling vertical isn’t that much a problem if data is consistently and logically placed when initially entering and subsequently editing. And, for each of the events. Currently, they’re not but that’s a carry over from long ago too.

      Yes, I understand that point of view, but personally I do find scrolling a nuisance. But I do agree about the order / logical placement of entry fields. It’s better than it used to be, but feel free to point out glaring issues. I’ll see if they can be improved.

      The size of a pop-up is different than a window and that’s important factor. Resizing a window isn’t the same and would be a distraction to editing. And as you mention, moving it around which I do A LOT.

      The other problem I have with the popups is that they are always getting lost behind other open windows because of their ability to be moved around. , or they have just a small edge visible to set focus onto. And, at least on Windows machines, tabs can be ‘un-docked’ from their initial browser window and moved around just like a pop-up.

      jamie said:

      But if moving the “edit” to a new tab – do you think about automatic moving focus to this new tab and when saving back at the right page?

      Yes, definitely. I have done one test and that works OK. When you click, for example, “Add birth” focus goes to the new tab. When you click ‘save’ on that tab focus returns to the original page and the edit tab closes. However, I do know that sometimes browsers have settings that can change these actions, so it might not work for every browser on every user’s system. More testing required!

      Roy said:

      However, I often find myself having to refer to the main screen as I edit. [Getting old and my memory isn’t what it used to be]. To accomplish this in the proposal two additional steps would be necessary; pull the edit tab off into a new window and then resize it. Probably would still have to scroll the new resized window.

      I agree, and I do the same myself. However, whether its one step or two depends on how you work, how you use your screen space, what hardware you use etc…. Lots of personal preferences at play here. So for me, I would say having it in a tab rather than pop-up makes little difference. Let me explain….
      I have a 27 inch display. That is large enough that I rarely have any window set to use the full size. When I need to see both the original page AND the edit tab, I click on the edit tab, and in the same single motion drag it to the extreme right side of the display. In Windows (can’t comment about Apple) that automatically ‘docks’ the tab to the side AND displays it full height and 50% of the display width. Often that is all I need, but occasionally I will drag the original tab (or browser window) to the left for a similar effect on that side, giving me two side-by-side tabs, one for edit, one for original data.

      Less common, I occasionally have 2 editing pop-ups open at the same time. That would double the additional steps.

      That’s a good point. One scenario like that (possibly not the sort you are referring) is where you need a second edit before you can complete the first (Add media during add birth; add new source during edit marriage; create shared note while adding a census record; etc..). In such cases I am hoping I will be able to combine both actions on the same edit tab.

      It wouldn’t be a deal breaker for me; just an aggravation.

      I hope to avoid aggravating users 🙂

      Nigel
      My personal kiwitrees site is www.our-families.info
      #4574
      pab
      pab
      Participant

      139 posts

      I regularly have more than one popup on the screen like the scenarios you mention. At the moment it is ‘shared note and census assistant’: I have three tabs (kt, ancestry, wikipedia) and two popups using alt-tab to cycle through the options. Usually only 1 alt-tab is needed to take me to the correct window. I transcribe into the census assistant window a family of 12 souls from the ancestry page underneath – I pity the poor fool who would try to do this on his mobile phone … and am (slightly) concerned about developers developing for/on 27″ screens!! I have a 15″ laptop running linux mint and have got used to the popup frustrations … I just worry I will get MORE frustrated with the alternative?

      Paul

      Penguins Are Boss

      Apache 2.4.25; MariaDB 10.1.22; PHP 7.0.18

      http://bootesgowland.info

      #4576
      kiwi
      kiwi
      Keymaster

      1595 posts

      Paul, thanks for your feedback. Similar in some ways to everyone else’s, which is comforting.

      In a similar situation, using only tabs (no popups), I would use ctrl-tab instead of alt-tab. Ctrl-tab cycles through the tabs in a single browser window (from left to right) just like alt-tab cycles through windows. That is reasonably consistent across (windows) browsers. Then each browser has it’s own enhancements for things like skip-to-last tab / re-open last closed tab / move-tab, etc (see “Switch between tabs” for more info)

      When transcribing census data I usually set ancestry.com to its own browser window, with tabs for both their transcribed page and the census image as I find it helps to work from both.That browser window is docked to the right-side of the display, and the one with kiwitrees open docked to the left.

      If the kiwitrees one had an edit tab (instead of edit pop-up window) you woulld simply alt-tab to switch from ancestry to kiwitrees; and ctrl-tab to switch between the tabs within in each window.,

      This avoids the confusion I often get with windows moving around in the ‘stack”, and sometimes hiding my popups.

      … and am [slightly] concerned about developers developing for/on 27″ screens!!

      🙂 Don’t be concerned. I don’t think any developer (especially not this one) would be developing FOR 27″ screens. However I know very few who wouldn’t need to develop ON one (or even two or three simultaneously). Bear in mind that development often requires windows open for up to 6 different browsers at a time!

      Nigel
      My personal kiwitrees site is www.our-families.info
      #4577
      macalter
      macalter
      Participant

      551 posts

      I hope to avoid aggravating users 🙂

      You’re asking our feedback. So at least we know you’re thinking about us 🙂

      The URL gives examples for Windows. Safari and Firefox are the most common for Mac, BUT not all of us are on the latest OS because of $$ to upgrade all our software (and other considerations). Can probably say lots of Windows users too don’t upgrade. Unlike Windows, Mac users cannot upgrade their browser independent of OS. So, I could never be on Safari 8 while running OS 10.7.5.

      So, it’s a question if you switch to tabs on Windows (as in this example), what happens to a) Mac users on latest OS or b) users of not-the-latest OS/browser of either platform. Let alone that pesky IE.

      (27 inch …. Was way to much extra $$ so settled for 21 – am sorry now; less territory for the two browsers I use at all times; one for kt, other for all research sites)

      -----
      Kiwitrees:
      "A-D connections 3.3.1"
      PHP 7.0 Fast CGI

      "The Royals 3.3.1"
      PHP 7.0 Fast CGI
      mySQL server: 5.1.56
      MacOS: 10.11.6  (El Capitan)
      Browsers (mac): Safari  Version 11.0;  Firefox 56.0
      [updated: 07 Oct 2017]

      #4578
      kiwi
      kiwi
      Keymaster

      1595 posts

      Oops – I just realised my grammar is less than ideal. This sentence could be read in two ways:

      I hope to avoid aggravating users

      I hope no-one thinks I was implying kiwitrees has any “aggravating users” …. Definitely not my intent.
      ———————————————————————————————————————————————

      The URL gives examples for Windows. Safari and Firefox are the most common for Mac, BUT not all of us are on the latest OS because of $$ to upgrade all our software (and other considerations). Can probably say lots of Windows users too don’t upgrade. Unlike Windows, Mac users cannot upgrade their browser independent of OS. So, I could never be on Safari 8 while running OS 10.7.5.

      No, that article definitely refers to Safari on MAC, though perhaps the wrong versions (for you). But it looks to me as if the solution is pretty much the same as on Windows, and not particularly dependent on whether it’s the latest or not.

      Nigel
      My personal kiwitrees site is www.our-families.info
      #4579
      pab
      pab
      Participant

      139 posts

      {pab wrote:
      I hope to avoid aggravating users 🙂
      }

      No, I didn’t, but I don’t either 🙂

      Penguins Are Boss

      Apache 2.4.25; MariaDB 10.1.22; PHP 7.0.18

      http://bootesgowland.info

      #4588

      jacoline
      Participant

      479 posts

      Most of the danish users (genealogy users) – use IE 🙁
      So I allways try to fix my page for crome/ff and IE
      FF my own choice and a big part of the younger (genealogy) users are on crome
      Also here the users are behind with upgrades. 90% of my visitors still at win7 (incl. my self at my main pc)

      Regards,
      Jamie Jaconelli

      admin and owner of:
      www.jaconelli.dk/webtrees, www.jaconelli.dk/history, www.familien-johnsen.dk(submenu) and danish support at www.host-siden.dk/sandbox and facebook

      #4599
      kiwi
      kiwi
      Keymaster

      1595 posts

      Most of the danish users (genealogy users) – use IE :(
      So I allways try to fix my page for crome/ff and IE
      FF my own choice and a big part of the younger (genealogy) users are on crome
      Also here the users are behind with upgrades. 90% of my visitors still at win7 (incl. my self at my main pc)

      None of those choices make any difference to this proposal. Everything will work on IE (but no older than IE9, I won’t support those). WIN7 is fine for anybody. I use it myself, though I might move to Win10 as it is free, once first bugs are sorted (assuming there will be plenty).

      For developing I can’t completely ignore MAC users, so do need to include Safari.
      Opera is also popular. Then of course there’s the various mobile devices sizes to plan for.

      Fortunately from IE10 onwards I am finding far fewer differences between browsers, so except for mobile life is a little easier. IE11 is actually quite good.
      🙂

      Nigel
      My personal kiwitrees site is www.our-families.info
      #4600

      jacoline
      Participant

      479 posts

      Well I trust you enough to find a good solution 🙂

      Myheritage also use a spec. mobile app! Like ancestry

      Regards,
      Jamie Jaconelli

      admin and owner of:
      www.jaconelli.dk/webtrees, www.jaconelli.dk/history, www.familien-johnsen.dk(submenu) and danish support at www.host-siden.dk/sandbox and facebook

      #5341
      kiwi
      kiwi
      Keymaster

      1595 posts

      I have made some progress on this – please read: https://kiwitrees.net/forums/topic/progress-update/

      Nigel
      My personal kiwitrees site is www.our-families.info
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